Curse

Skye Marin · Apr 28, 2009, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Throw it in the Zaishen Chest, and it's a great way to boost the values of Zaishen Keys.

Hyper Cutter · May 26, 2009, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Why don't these exist? That mostly worthless imp stone shows it can be done, so there really should be some. At the very least, there should be an Everlasting Mysterious Summoning Stone as a rare drop from the Traveler Gifts or something...

zwei2stein · May 26, 2009, 02:29 PM // 14:29

With everlasting, you would pop it every time you enter area without thinking twice.

instanceskiller · May 26, 2009, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

With everlasting, you would pop it every time you enter area without thinking twice.

Not really since there's a time limit on how often you can use nomal stones so if anything, if they do implement everlasting stones id say to increase that limit to maybe 90 mins? and maybe reduce the max level to 15.

MithranArkanere · May 26, 2009, 02:37 PM // 14:37

I don't use a stone unless I really think it would be needed. Not because I want to save them, but because once you summon one, you must wait one hour until you can summon another.

Everlasting Zaishen and Merchant stones would be nice to have in the Gold Zaishen collector for 50..200 gold.

Eragon Zarroc · May 26, 2009, 02:38 PM // 14:38

would have to be an extremely rare drop to be implemented. but to be honest, dont really need the extra help in pve, lol.

Kattar · May 26, 2009, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Next time search before you post. I mean really, they even had the same thread titles.

Merged cause I love you all so much.

Skyy High · May 26, 2009, 03:25 PM // 15:25

If they made everlasting stones, it would have to be the Mysterious type, that way people couldn't design builds using a particular summon for farming.

Nihilim Dhiamara · May 26, 2009, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by legacyofkain85

Summoning stones are a nice addition,tbh i would picture the whole summoning process in another way,although the way it is atm it also creates a gold sink,but imagine summonings like pets and rangers,so instead of having to craft stones we would have 1 or 2 skills (pve only that take up pve only skill slots)like the ranger has[comfort animal]and [charm animal] but for the summons,1 skill alows u to bring the summon and the other skill to res the summon after 30 mins,or just 1 skill that alows u to summon and res it after 30 mins.So when u go in an explorable area u take the corresponding skill for the summon and there u go,this would be also the way i imagine pets for rangers,but that would require an entire rework of the beast mastery attribute skill line,instead of having pet attacks just give each pet its own skill bar.

P.S:I am not sure if i posted this in the correct forum,so i please ask the mods to reallocate it.

=asura sumon

genofreek · May 26, 2009, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Wait, you mean you people don't already have TOO MANY summoning stones? Between festival events and traveler gifts, I already have more than I'll ever need. And that's not even taking the imp into account. I usually fire off a summon when I start a mission, not because I particularly need it, but because I have so damn many.

On a related note... Anet, if you're reading this, please don't make a summoning title. I already don't let most of my characters use attribute-boosting sweets or drunk skills because I'm saving that junk for my main. Making this a thing too wouldn't be cool at all.

A11Eur0 · May 26, 2009, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by instanceskiller

Not really since there's a time limit on how often you can use nomal stones so if anything, if they do implement everlasting stones id say to increase that limit to maybe 90 mins? and maybe reduce the max level to 15.

The time limit drops when you enter a new zone or outpost. You can use a stone, rezone, then use it again all in under a minute.

Shasgaliel · May 26, 2009, 11:16 PM // 23:16

azura summons, summonnig stones and mm. gogo team of +36 in Urgoz. Nice idea but such stones would be a bit overpowered.

/notsigned

A11Eur0 · May 26, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

azura summons, summonnig stones and mm. gogo team of +36 in Urgoz. Nice idea but such stones would be a bit overpowered.

/notsigned

You can already do the same thing, just that the stones aren't everlasting. You get mystical stones for free from finishing Urgoz, you can craft other stones as well...what's the difference? I don't think one Gaki is going to make a team. Even a siege turtle isn't even that useful, its attack rate is pitiful.

I'll /sign because the convenience is more important than the gameplay.

kazjun · May 27, 2009, 01:43 AM // 01:43

/sign just cause it may be fun

Gotta say though, overpowered, really? They're for fun, not serious backup. I've never had a time EVER when I'd thought to myself, "If only I had popped a summoning stone, it could have saved me". Whether you have one or not makes no difference to NM, and most die in HM as soon as they get targeted. If you're relying on these, I reckon you should be having a closer look at your heroe's bars.

ShadowsRequiem · May 27, 2009, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

You can already do the same thing, just that the stones aren't everlasting. You get mystical stones for free from finishing Urgoz, you can craft other stones as well...what's the difference? I don't think one Gaki is going to make a team. Even a siege turtle isn't even that useful, its attack rate is pitiful.

I'll /sign because the convenience is more important than the gameplay.

Actually gakis try to frontline in urgoz and just mess up the run. Not a good idea anyway :P

Yawgmoth · May 27, 2009, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Existance of everlasting ones would totally RUIN the value of normal ones. They already have little value and almost nobody crafts them, and who would do that while having an everlasting one?

RARITY won't help here - if they were as rare as Everlasting Tonics they would become goods for the masses in a few months. If they were much more rare... what's the point of creating UBERRARE items which give *significant* power advantage?

Yes, significant.

Some may say that a summon cannot make the difference between win and lose, but I've had more than 1 situation where it actually happened! The ability to summon one anytime you want would make it a permanent personal pet, usable for example in solofarming where summoning stones aren't used at all because of the cost.

Ever played with the Fire Imp?
It's absurridiculously overpowered, especially (but not only) in PreSearing where it's practically A GOD. It's an additional party member which doesn't steal your drops, it's a tank and a killing machine in one, available always for free... if you payed enough real $$$ for it.

BALANCING.

So is there ANY way to make them balanced?
The current 1 summon per party and Summoning Sickness are not enough for this kind of imba (see Fire Imp).

Of course there needs to be a protection added so a player with Summoning Sickness cannot trade or drop an everlasting stone.

The way to make them ~somewhat~ balanced would be adding a COST for every use!
Like, for example:
Lose 1 Skill Point. Get -15% Death Penalty.

Skillpoint sink for the win!

That would make some people think before using it everywhere, but it's still not a big cost.

I'd consider adding "Lose 1 Platinum" there aswell - something to think about, but surely this would make the value of all the regular ones remain unaffected, but value of the everlasting one would be much lower (they'd be less desired items then).

genofreek · May 27, 2009, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Ever played with the Fire Imp?
It's absurridiculously overpowered, especially (but not only) in PreSearing where it's practically A GOD. It's an additional party member which doesn't steal your drops, it's a tank and a killing machine in one, available always for free... if you payed enough real $$$ for it.

The current 1 summon per party and Summoning Sickness are not enough for this kind of imba (see Fire Imp).

Oh hell yes. You can roll anything in pre with the imp, and my guildie and I get around the summon sickness "nerf" by each bringing an imp when we hunt charr. If one of us has an imp die, the other brings hers out, and we've never needed more than two. And we're both pretty low level for permapres. It's imba as hell, but it makes getting trophies a snap. Even at level 1, that thing is deadly.

MithranArkanere · May 27, 2009, 12:04 PM // 12:04

The imp is overpowered in pre, because it has leveled armor, glyph or restoration and fireball.
Once you get to level 24..28 areas, summons are not so much. They tend to die a lot in HM, specially the melee ones.

Shasgaliel · May 27, 2009, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazjun

/sign just cause it may be fun

Gotta say though, overpowered, really? They're for fun, not serious backup. I've never had a time EVER when I'd thought to myself, "If only I had popped a summoning stone, it could have saved me". Whether you have one or not makes no difference to NM, and most die in HM as soon as they get targeted. If you're relying on these, I reckon you should be having a closer look at your heroe's bars.

Imp in pre for example. It is far too powerful. I can have EMPTY skill bar and decimate charr mobs easily. On a side note 8 summons can make a big difference. If yours die immediately in HM it does not mean other are not able to keep them alive. Even hardest missions are walk in the park when all those pug people with crappy bars use summons. Numbers do make a difference. In Dzagonur bastion HM I even did not move cause all my party members were killing 2 bosses at the same time with all their summoned crap. It is not HM anymore...

They are overpowered whether you like it or not.

Dante the Warlord · May 27, 2009, 11:24 PM // 23:24

The debate is over the stone summons - not the skill summons. I think that they would be a great addition that could be easily implemented and not a vanity item - something that is actually of use. The summoning stones make very little difference in teams. I get party wiped all the time and they are just like minions - overaggoing everything. I think most summoning stones should be implemented, with the exception of the merchant since it could really be exploited by farmers, especially on glacial stone runs.

/signed